Curse

CHunterX · Nov 14, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llint

Not GvG

Counter builds should not be prevalent. I should be able to go in a match with 2 warriors, 1 mesmer, 1 ranger, 1 elementist and two monks, and should I be better, win that match. I shouldn't lose because someone brought xx and xx which are overall imbalanced from the rest of the game.

Why is the only accepted build "balanced" for PvP? I never understood that. Why is Izzy and the PvP playerbase so adamantly against players using builds outside of Monk-Monk-Monk-Elementalist-Ranger-Mesmer-Warrior-Warrior? If the game is suppose to be made made for "balanced-only," why isn't there a limit on how many of one class you can bring? Haven't "balanced" players been asking for this for a while?

Aera Lure · Nov 14, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

play HM. come back when you're done.

My main complaint about the change is simply animals not leaving exploitable corpses makes about as much sense as soul reaping having a timer. You dont need pets in HM or areas where there are little to no corpses. Plenty of other ways to deal with it.

Having them leave no corpses is clunky. Change the pet corpse mechanic in PvP for PvP-only pet characteristics, unless the intent really was to make people stop using them as sources for corpses in PvE. If that was the case, why? Been going through HM just fine without ever using a pet.

Tactical-Dillusions · Nov 14, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

3 extra damage on barrage... am i missing something here? Why the excitement? Let us keep preparations with it and maybe i might be more enthusiastic. What say you Anet?

Glad Sins got nerfed anyway. I was getting very sick of being killed in 2-3 seconds without being able to react to the knock-down and daze. It was only a few hours ago my GF witnessed my monk get slaughtered by a sin and i calmly told her that they will be nerfed one day because Anet doesn't give players an IWIN button. So i wasn't worrying about it.

Spike · Nov 14, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

example #34356376 of an reactionary pvp nerfing further ruining casual pve play

and make up your mind about word of healing

wtf pets dont leave corpses? must have been some pvp thing I don't give a rat's ass about

QFT Once again why not nerf PVP and NOT PVE. i know its possable as we now have PVE ONLY skills. So Anet must know when we are in pve and are not.

Kaida the Heartless · Nov 14, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Changes I would have liked to seen with the update:

Necromancer
Soul Reaping: no longer gains any benefit from Spirits. You now gain Energy 3 times every 10 seconds.

Ranger
Kill this --> Player Pets: no longer leave exploitable corpses.

Also, the changes I've mentioned in a few other threads.

ensoriki · Nov 14, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Because they don't. Stop whining and go adapt.

Sekkira just because people can adapt doesn't mean its fair.

Horns of the ox nerf = WTF, A-net....Hire someone else now. 15 strikes your out.

Nerfing Horns is bad for assassins,bad for secondarys,bad for pvp,bad for the game, BAD for NORTH AMERICA...

BAD FOR THE WORLD.

>.> Pve'rs do adapt, but for what for? There are certain (few) parts of Pve, where your build really does matter, and if a-net isn't careful they can seriously gimp play there.

Eternal grove, is not a mission for total idiots (well MM makes anything possible but regardless) you generally have to split (1 of the first applications that will prepare you somewhat for gvg)

Need co-ordination and team work.

You don't just run crap, there.

DoA....not as bad as it used to be but regardless, you don't just run crap.

PVE can adapt, but what if that adaption means ruining it for other classes?

Mesmers/sins arent' exactly Perfect for pve (although Moebius DB allows sins a chance)

Soon enough, they won't be able to adapt for certain missions. Sunqua Vale will always be do able, but there are missions, even pvpers should realize...theres places where you can go to far.

>.> I don't really do missions in pve, but its there.

CyberNigma · Nov 14, 2007, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

name me ONE competitive game where they go in and change the rules every few months.

ummm...

ok one game then.

"lets have a chess tournament!"

"ok"

"wait what day is it?, Tuesday yeah...so..."

"yeah towers now move diagonally and the queen can only take a piece if you wear green socks"

or CSS?

"from now on until next month Glock and AWM damage will be reversed in the sake of promoting handgun usage and competitiveness"

You a**.. you beat me to the punch completely lol.. I was just thinking the same thing. :-) Even in video games this is true.

Sleeper Service · Nov 14, 2007, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Bring pet - kill pet - raise meat shield - rez pet - rinse and repeat??

Boringgggg

either you are joining typical b/p groups for the sake of efficiency(?) or you dont know how to set up heroes properly.

try playing for fun and coming up with your own builds, you might...you know...enjoy it?

edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llint

You realize minions die in like one hit in HM right? How does having a very very fragile army help you accomplish hard mode?

errmm jagged bones? minion bomber?, using minions in areas with few De and El fire dmg?, if its the case prioritizing targeting?

oh yeah . pvpers think all pvers are idiots who c space the whole game.

Esan · Nov 14, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

The SR nerf is not enough. Remove SR for minions also.

Make Animate Bone Minions cost 25e.

It is time to close the shameful SR exploit chapter of GW.

EW needs to be reworked completely. It can still be kept up constantly by dual E/Rs. Making it reduce the cost of ranger skills only is one fix.

Malice Black · Nov 14, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

If you need a minion army just to do HM, you're not very good anyway, and prob should go back to NM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

either you are joining typical b/p groups for the sake of efficiency(?) or you dont know how to set up heroes properly.

try playing for fun and coming up with your own builds, you might...you know...enjoy it?

Me B/P?? lol I don't farm. I've never needed to farm. I've never been in a B/P group. I've never done Tombs. You get my drift??

I play for fun...this is why I laugh at skill updates. They don't effect me, as I don't really care.

Full Metal X · Nov 14, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Sekkira just because people can adapt doesn't mean its fair.

Horns of the ox nerf = WTF, A-net....Hire someone else now. 15 strikes your out.

Nerfing Horns is bad for assassins,bad for secondarys,bad for pvp,bad for the game, BAD for NORTH AMERICA...

BAD FOR THE WORLD.

>.> Pve'rs do adapt, but for what for? There are certain (few) parts of Pve, where your build really does matter, and if a-net isn't careful they can seriously gimp play there.

Eternal grove, is not a mission for total idiots (well MM makes anything possible but regardless) you generally have to split (1 of the first applications that will prepare you somewhat for gvg)

Need co-ordination and team work.

You don't just run crap, there.

DoA....not as bad as it used to be but regardless, you don't just run crap.

PVE can adapt, but what if that adaption means ruining it for other classes?

Mesmers/sins arent' exactly Perfect for pve (although Moebius DB allows sins a chance)

Soon enough, they won't be able to adapt for certain missions. Sunqua Vale will always be do able, but there are missions, even pvpers should realize...theres places where you can go to far.

>.> I don't really do missions in pve, but its there.

You could like run a SP->Black mantis combo with trampling ox, still get your imba damage in and the kd.

CHunterX · Nov 14, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Changes I would have liked to seen with the update:

Necromancer
Soul Reaping: No inherent effect.

I think this is what you were going for, making Soul Reaping useless, right?

Pirates Arrrg Matey · Nov 14, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

I think they should there should be another searing and all our characters get deleted
/sarcasm

I don't think its a big deal, but either anet listens to your rants or they don't. Its as simple as that, hey I like doing B/P too, but lets have another build craze everyone. Lets make a new *widely* used build to play, cheer up!

Batou of Nine · Nov 14, 2007, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

unlike pvp, GW pve is not a competitive game. as such, it really doesn't matter whatever the form skills end up being. it's a fact that you can go through the game with an empty skill bar, and do nothing but direct your henchmen. skill balance makes no difference in pve to those with a brain.

Purely out of curiousity, please be the example?
Complete hardmode, with only H/H as they are, with NO skills on your own bar.

Additionally, if you truely think skills in PvE simpy dont matter, then dropping all skill effectiveness to about 1/4 of what they currently are you still think PvE will be so easy? IT will be like running around trying to kill 300 ton flies with a typical fly swatter... Yes, skills matter in PvE.

How moronic of a statement is taht? I am not foolish enough to be pulled in an argument about PvE vs PvP, as i play both, but alas just dont make statements that are plain silly and purely inflammatory/flamebait. *sigh*

cheers.

Llint · Nov 14, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

Why is the only accepted build "balanced" for PvP? I never understood that. Why is Izzy and the PvP playerbase so adamantly against players using builds outside of Monk-Monk-Monk-Elementalist-Ranger-Mesmer-Warrior-Warrior? If the game is suppose to be made made for "balanced-only," why isn't there a limit on how many of one class you can bring? Haven't "balanced" players been asking for this for a while?

Because for the most part, there are a lot of good balanced builds that take advantage of a large amount of warriors and rangers. Other builds run large amounts of the other classes, but less so. I could say the same thing for every other class.

What if I want to run 5 sins/elementists/warriors/rangers/mesmers/ritualists/monks/dervishes/paragons but can't because theres one skill out there that is sooooo good, and imbalanced from the rest of the game, that theres no reason?

ensoriki · Nov 14, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Metal X

You could like run a SP->Black mantis combo with trampling ox, still get your imba damage in and the kd.

Oh Guru Form, Since when has ANYONE on this entire planet see me PROMOTE, or SUPPORT Insta-gib. PvP forum....even though some of you think im retarded...when have I showed any compassion for that crap?

I've always done, things the way I prefer.
I don't plan to run SP-gib any time soon.

anyways

I also don't have eotn any moment (and im considering not wasting 50 dollars)
I probably wont get eotn until at least december.

As
Mario galaxy> Guild wars.
Nintendo doesn't Screw up its customers. Fact.

Izzy......can you divide your Job into 10 different parts please?

We should have 1-2 persons balancing for each class.

Izzy should just be a super visor.

I wan't someone working on the assassin class, who cares enough to know

Nerfing Horns is retarded like having guns on the street.

Lady Raenef · Nov 14, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Fix Black Lotus Strike! Even with the nerf, they make it FAIL.

Description:
"Lead Attack. If it hits, Black Lotus Strike strikes for +[damage]. IF target foe is suffering from a hex, you gain [energy]."

It is usable without a hex now, but still, to this day.

Picture:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8083/failjt9.png

FAIL.

MsMassacre · Nov 14, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

How I envy players of online games that don't have constant pointless skill updates that do nothing but aggravate players.

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 14, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

ArenaNet should do a complete rollback so each class has their skills on the original way they were. Then take a second try at balance, but with someone OTHER than Izzy. Someone who actually plays PvE.

Kusandaa · Nov 14, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuclfus

As far as I can tell, the pet corpse nerf (along with the new splinter weapon) is there to try and break the monopoly B/P farming has on tombs. I would think it's still doable (pets tanking during MM downtime), just the corpses aren't infinite so you can't be as sloppy. Which opens the door for other strategies to be tried out...

To this, let's take a look. I bet there are more solutions (one I know of, and the one I'll resort if the old b/p way doesn't work anymore... although, TBH, it should), but let's see the foes in ToPK.

Grasps aren't melee friendly; in HM they do up to 400dmg/hit; they remove enchantments from their foes and hexes from themselves when they hit the "right" target, attack through stances, blind, cripple. They come in bunches of 4-5. Solution: ranged attacks that hit multiple foes; Barrage. Pet to bodyblock and create diversion from your original team. Pets also provide CORPSES for the necro to use at either the beginning of the level, or after a party wipe when they happen, or less enemies in the area and the MM has low-ish minions (3-5).

Scythes: casters, mesmers; deal less damage than the grasps, but still have the same stuff as them (ench. removal, attack through stance, etc). They can shut a caster down for a short time. Solution: Barrage.

Terrorwebs: fire nukers with MS and general AoE damage. MS > party. Solution: interrupts, so once again: b/p.

Riders: casters, mesmers; enchantment removal and they love to use it. Solution: b/p. Solution to b/p: Empathy. Solution to Empathy: Hex Removal.

So of course most of the population will NOT run balanced; the tanks are being leet and carry Mending (ench. removal, attacks through stances); the monks prot pullers (ench. removal from riders); the nukers are heavy nukes with long spell casts (shutdown from mesmers) and remain squishy to elemental damage. So no bodyblocking > grasps leak > party dies.

Note that I'm talking here about the general PvE mentality, focusing on the "holy trinity", which needs to be changed and won't. The b/p pet is ideal, I'll agree, because it eliminates a buncha problems caused by the foes.

HOWEVER...

PvE needs to adapt as well. Even though this build is effective, well there ARE other solutions: I 3-man ToPK with a famine ranger, a monk with SB and a VwK rit. It works, faster than your average PUG, and you have the advantage of a 3-man farming build.